Maximilian of Habsburg and the Mexico

[AdlerTS]

Dear Mauricio,

you told us that you are mexican, so I've got a question for you.
You probably remember that Maximilian of Habsburg left Trieste to Mexico to become Emperor and he died killed by Juarez's army.

My question is to understand what they teach you at school about this, and if he is painted as a negative character or not.

[refolo]

Scusa, ma me meraviglia assai sta domanda? se a lui non ghe xe stada insegnada sta version storica? come ti'? non te la ga' studiada a scola?

Prima gavevo scritto sul forum la storia che go' letto al Museo del Mexico?
una messicana xe vegnuda per conosserme a San Antonio Texas. Bionda oci semi-celesti. Discendente de SANTANA!!!!!

Un Monte in Nova Zelanda ga' el nome de Franz Joseph? e ti te credi che i personaggi Austriaci iera tutti angioletti?

Come tutti i usurpatori, o Dio solo sa' come ciamarli? i ga' lassa' porcherie che non se pol nianche nominarle. I messicani xe persone assai intelligenti, i devi soccomber tra el Sud-Nord, tegnirse la sua storia bella o brutta,

come un matrimonio mal forma'. Te lo posso garantir mi'. I lotta per quel chei ga' sofferto, senza dimenticarse de niente per lori Storia xe sacra.
El bel xe esposto al Museo, la porcheria espulsa.

Maria aka refolo

[babatriestina]

[MOD]Please, Maria, this is the English section, so write in English!! We all know you can. Second, he asked him and not you, and about contemporary Mexican schoolbooks. You have studied history at school on Italian books, and before WW2, that is they were a bit nationalist.. to use an undestatement... and please, could you be more explicit? you speak of a Museo, but which Museum and where? [MOD]

[mauricioom]

OMG, i was so excited i could read triestino! now i didn't got squad about the Santana part! hehe....

Well, it's kind of stange, Maximilian i mean...
The story goes like this, there was two sides (as in most wars, just like the ameican civil war, those who were liberal and those who were on the oposite side and were quite in to conservativism), the conservative side got stuck with the idea of the monarchy and social status and privileges, they asked a lot of monarchies and the Austrian Empire being one of the most important monarchy agree to send Maximilian to the throne of Mexico, but not as an extention of the empire, more of a "let's see how you do on your own, and if it works we'll have power in America" kind of way, the thing is that Austria left him alone as it had it's own problems, an Napoleon decided to help out, Maximilian was a man of pretty much liberal mind, he actualy admired some of the man who hated him, he pushed a couple of vey important reforms and brought a new look to Mexico City (a lot of the old palaces are still amazingly beautiful in Mexico City)... The truth might have been that he suffered of SURNAME, ORIGIN and FRIENDS, that was his problem...
Napoleon left him when he had his own wars to attened to, the idea of aristochracy wasn't that well settled with the people in Mexico that only saw it as a way to oppression and his "friends" who where actually a lot more conservative than him only kept getting more enemies against their cause, that wasn't necessarily Maximilian's cause!

The thing is that when all of his man run away he was left alone, and he acted as a gentleman to the end, at east in my opinion, he never said anything against this country or its people, he actually embraced it as much as he could and he love it as if it was his own country, that is something to admire at least that is what i think..

It's just a stoy with a weird ending, but to finally answer the question, mexican history is as weird as it gets, as an example SantaAna is loved by many bacause of his military campaigns and his tenacity, but he sold half of Mexico! so is mosty hated hehe... Porfirio Díaz is another example, he actually sent to kill houndreds of people during his dictatorship, but he brought Mexico to the first place in economy at the time, he brought all the economical and technological advances that existed to the country... Even Juarez, it's loved by everyone, it's kind of the Abe Lincoln of the mexican people, but he didin't do THAT much!... With mexican history is pretty much anybody's game to see who's appreciated and who is seen as a negative character, the info's there, you make you own opinion, that's great about the freedom of speech and mind over here...

Mauricio

[AdlerTS]

Many thanks Mauricio

You are probably aware that I'm in love with the Habsburg family and your kind words about Maximilian sound very good to me

[mauricioom]

Well, for the record, i do learn it all in school, you get al the points of view in your education as mexicanmainly 'cause is an extremely diverse country...

A fact i haven't told you about my family (one of the branches) is that a direct ancester of mine, my 5th grandfather (GrGrGrGrreatGrandfather) that was named Tomas Zuloaga Trillo was one of Maximilian acquaintances, he named him a sort of gobernor to the state of Chihuahua... and because of that, at the end of Maximilian's empire Tomas was sent to exile for two years!... Another fact is that Tomas's brother, Felix, was the rival of Juarez, both proclaimed themselves president of Mexico, for the conservative party and for the liberal respectively...

[refolo]

I didn't meant to offended you, I was referring to us! triestini.
You see..I am an old lady of nearly 72 years of age. I wouldn't never ask such a question to a new generation, even if they use the Internet or books for that matter.

During my schooling time we had the Austria-Hungarian-Fascism-Communism-English-Americans, in every single days of the week. Nothing was left over, we had to know everything this is part of history, regardless the country.

What I saw at the Museum, and learnt from people of Mexico it was a surprise for me too. At least they don't forget, like others, who want us to shut up. My friend, from San Antonio Texas is in the direct line of Santana
not good for the south Americans....they believe in what David Crockett did.

anyhow have a good luck with your ancestors. Mine is going on fine. I thing, that by the look of it, that your ancestors left like Mr. Bartol , almost at the same time. It was a complete rush to go away either North and South America.

Maria aka refolo

[AdlerTS]

A new movie from the director Gilles Lellouche after Narco (2004) is on the way to the big screens:Hors-la-loi tells a mexican story between 1861 and 1867. Written by Éric Besnard (Babylon A.D., Le nouveau protocole), the story talks about a soldier (Benoît Magimel), a gold hunter (Gilles Lellouche), a gambler (Guillaume Canet) playing during Maximilian of Absburg mexican adventure.
Let's wait and see

[AdlerTS]

On the italian section I was talking about an interesting book about the adventure of Emperor Maximilian in Mexico: the complete book can be downloaded as a pdf file here.
Enjoy

[AdlerTS]

There is still a small picture of Maximilian in Mexico: it's on the "Monumento de la Bandera" in Merida.



Resta una picola tracia del nostro Massimiliano in Messico: xe nel "Monumento de la Bandera" a Merida.

[potter]

Good day to all ! I 'm a new entry ! Due to my job and business I was several time in Hispanic America and I was curious of what was left of the period Maximilian was there. With surprise the remember of him was of a human person victim of a huge international political plot and the blame of his execution should be put on the USA foreign politic of that time ,being Mexico its main border neighbour .
It is a rain check to me to go there and visit the Palace where he lived .
As far as I remember I saw two movies where he is not depicted as new " conquistador" one was " Vera Cruz" starring Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster the other "Juarez" starring Paul Muni,Bette Davis,Brian Aherne.
Furthermore in 2002 in Vienna has been published a book by Johann Georg Lughofer which title is " Des Kaisers neues Leben -Der fall Maximilian Von Mexiko " where an audacious theory has been laid.
Because President Juarez was member of a Masonic Lodge and Maximilian as well. the execution was a fake .When Pres. Juarez released the statement of his execution he said in Spanish " El Archiduque Ferdinando Maximiliano Jose de Austria habia sido pasado justo por las armas"
this message contained two key word" Justo Armas" With the name of Justo Armas he crossed the border to entering El Salvador the 23rd June 1867. It is said to be he died there with this name when he was 104 years old . His mourning ceremony was attended by the Bishop of El Salvador who said " In reality a Prince is dead ". The only comment left is that his descendants did not give permission to open the grave and effect DNA test; furthermore the name Justo recall the Saint Patron of town he loved so much " San Giusto ".
For the curiosity lovers ! Pancho Villa was holding also Austrian citizenship during the Mexican revollution ! So Long! John Paul Potter

[AdlerTS]

Good day to all ! I 'm a new entry ! Due to my job and business I was several time in Hispanic America and I was curious of what was left of the period Maximilian was there. With surprise the remember of him was of a human person victim of a huge international political plot and the blame of his execution should be put on the USA foreign politic of that time ,being Mexico its main border neighbour .

This is just to confirm what Mauricio said. It sounds good to my "Double-headed eagle" ears

Furthermore in 2002 in Vienna has been published a book by Johann Georg Lughofer which title is " Des Kaisers neues Leben -Der fall Maximilian Von Mexiko " where an audacious theory has been laid.
Because President Juarez was member of a Masonic Lodge and Maximilian

I do hope that you don't trust this book ! (Or Maximilian had a trip with Elvis and Adolf Hitler ? )

[potter]

That's why in English language Story and History are not sinonimous !!!!
Bye Bye.
John Paul Potter

[babatriestina]

:- the blame of his execution should be put on the USA foreign politic of that time ,being Mexico its main border neighbour .
.
Furthermore in 2002 in Vienna has been published a book by Johann Georg Lughofer which title is " Des Kaisers neues Leben -Der fall Maximilian Von Mexiko " where an audacious theory has been laid.

The USA had declarated that they didn't want any interference from European powers in America, but France and other powers, which after left them, profited when USA were involved in the Secession War for putting in Mexico an European Emperor. In the XIX century new kings came in a lot of european states, generally from German countries ( the "Gotha")

As for the fantastic suggestion, well, it could be an explanation for the long delay before the restitution of the presumed body of poor Maximilian.

( I'm not sure that my English is very correct)

[potter]

Good day !When Maximilian died the Civil War (!861/65)was over.At that time the President of USA was Andrew Johnson (1865/69) and he was supportiing Benito Juarez both financially and military. It is said that he received a letter from Emperor Franz Josef askng for clemency for his brother 's life ,the request was disregarded and this was rather an ungrateful attitude because USA was in need of European support :furthermore Trieste was the first site in Europe where a diplomatic office was opened and secondly Trieste was also the first site where the Standard Oil of California (now Esso) set up their refinery premises in San Saba..For whom is familiar with German language the content is......... However the book is interesting for the sources menioned.As far as I know the book has not been translated neither in English nor in Italian. Bye Bye .John Paul Potter