Practice your English. Help and advice.

[AdlerTS]

Dear teachers
Today I've got this question: in italian language the position of the adjective can change the meaning of the sentence.
For instance, if I say " ho incontrato un semplice ragazzo" is different from "ho incontrato un ragazzo semplice" , because the first says that I met just one boy instead of a group, the second one talks about the attitude of the guy.
Is it possible to have the same difference in english ?
Thanks a lot

[serlilian]

I think that in English you must use a different adjective, to show the difference. I think the adjective must always be before the name.

[PeterG]

I think that in English you must use a different adjective, to show the difference. I think the adjective must always be before the name.

Heaven forbid! (which I assure you is quite different from 'Forbid Heaven'). But you are right about the adjective preceeding a noun.

To take the two examples "ho incontrato un semplice ragazzo" and "ho incontrato un ragazzo semplice"
In English this would be "I simply met a boy" and "I met a simple boy" .

But Italian is much less ambiguous. Take for example "I met a single man", here we would rely on tone of voice or context to give us the meaning, for it could mean "Ho incontrato un semplice uomo" or "Ho incontrato un uomo da solo" or "Ho incontrato un uomo che non era con una donna" oppure "Ho incontrato uno scapolo."

Which brings me to another topic. The hyphen.

Twenty odd men compared with Twenty-odd men. The first is a score of eccentrics, the second about tweny normal chaps.

Extra marital sex / Extra-marital sex The first is good news for both parties, the second probably isn't.

Two more examples:

They are very well known / A well-known writer
Sono ben conosciuti / Un noto scrittore

This wine is first class / A first-class wine
Questo vino è ottimo / Un vino di prima qualità

But as the great Fowler said, many years ago, The Hyphen is not an ornament, but an aid to being understood and should only be employed for that.

All these examples, by the way, are taken from a gem of a book Damp Squid - the English language laid bare by Jeremy Butterfield.

Peter

[AdlerTS]

Hyphen are not in use in italian language. Or better, not in traditional italian.
Now a days due to the massive use of english words we're starting using it.

Your translation from "semplice" into "simple" makes me smile because I would instinctively translate into "easy", but sometimes "semplice" and "facile" are synonymous, sometimes they are not : there's a certain difference between a "ragazza semplice" and a "ragazza facile"

[PeterG]

there's a certain difference between a "ragazza semplice" and a "ragazza facile"

English is not quite as succinct; it requires a euphemism for the second.

A simple girl and a girl of easy virtue are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

Peter

[AdlerTS]

It's me once again
is it correct "where the treatments are to go" talking about a water proof treatment ?

[dcobau]

I believe it is correct:

treatment is to
treatments are to

but it depends on the context of the frase and to what the verb is referring to. eg.

the class of treatments is (the verb is referring to the class which is singular).

ciao

Dave

[AdlerTS]

Why not "treatments have to go" ?

[macondo]

It seems to me to be another case where the word is better employed in singular than in plural. I don't quite know the rationale behind such an use, but certain words in English are used almost exclusively in singular.
For instance: information, software, hardware, people ecc.
Treatment looks like one of them as the word on itself means a combination of different acts or actions...

[PeterG]

'Treatment', for a medical condition, includes all medicines, diets, operations, etc.

In this sense an example would be 'The treatment for his condition was successful'.

'Treatment', in the sense of repairs (building, car, house, etc) includes all remedial action.

Macondo is quite correct. It is always used as a singular collective noun: The prescribed treatment is ...

[macondo]

From wikipedia, to make things a bit more complicated:

Two good examples of collective nouns are "team" and "government," which are both words referring to groups of (usually) people. Both "team" and "government" are count nouns.... However, confusion often stems from the fact that plural verb forms can often be used with the singular forms of these count nouns (for example: "The team have finished the project"). Conversely, singular verb forms can often be used with nouns ending in "-s" that were once considered plural (for example: "Physics is my favorite academic subject"). This apparent "number mismatch" is actually a quite natural and logical feature of human language, and its mechanism is a subtle metonymic shift in the thoughts underlying the words.

[Ursus Canadiensis]

Hello Macondo:

Has Wikipedia given you the impression it "often" like repeating adverbs.... say words like, often?

Just a thought. I don't know why it popped to my mind so unexpectedly.


Arnie

[macondo]

Hello Macondo:

Has Wikipedia given you the impression it "often" like repeating adverbs.... say words like, often?

Just a thought. I don't know why it popped to my mind so unexpectedly.


Arnie

I can see why. In the above extract the adverb often has been repeated three times

[PeterG]

Two good examples of collective nouns are "team" and "government," which are both words referring to groups of (usually) people.

This is not quite the same as treatment. We can speak of several teams and any number of governments. In contrast we would have to say that there are several ways of administering the treatment, or the treatment takes various forms, rather than the treatments take various forms.

[Ghisela]

Hi everybody,

I need a proper repeat of my English !
A long time ago it was better than my Italian !
As I am always speaking italian, I am forgetting the vocabolaries !

A shame because I learnd 8 long years English at school !
So I am glad to have the possibility to use it here !

[serlilian]

Welcome Ghisela,
I'm glad to practice my English too. Let's wait our teachers.

[AdlerTS]

Immediately comes a question

I'm glad to practice my English too.

I would say "I'm glad to practice my English as well."

What's better ?

[serlilian]

I think it's the same thing. Eventhough I feel the first sentence as "Me too (I'm glad to practice English)" and the second one as "I'm glad to learn (French and) English as well".

[Ron]

Gentlemen

I've been waiting for Peter to make his usual beneficial comment but, until he does, I thought you might like to see this thread on an "Answers" forum.
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 336AAtGWog

Regards

Ron

[serlilian]

Interesting, eventhough the question was about "too" and "as well".

But a lady told, in another topic:

"Even in England English they shouldn't of said it.
I'm English and I would of said "They were"
Dyslexic people often get them two mixed up maybe you've just been with them lol

But no England English you should of said were"


... should of said... ???

OMG! I've never seen it.[/b]