A British soldier remembers Trieste in 1946

[Nona Picia]

Caro sum culex

That was my fault. I should have looked at the thread instead of just the email Ron sent me

Peter

Cioè?

[ffdt]

el dixi che 'l gavesi dovesto vardar el thread (cioe` cua) inveze che solo l'e-mail che ghe ga mandado Ron ;-D ... come dir che se 'l gavesi vardado in te'l forum el se gavesi inacorto che sum xe un mato e no una baba ;-D

[Ron]

el dixi che 'l gavesi dovesto vardar el thread (cioe` cua) inveze che solo l'e-mail che ghe ga mandado Ron ... come dir che se 'l gavesi vardado in te'l forum el se gavesi inacorto che sum xe un mato e no una baba

Dear ffdt

We have this peculiar situation here, where the "English Section" (to which I am now responding) has a paragraph (in what I believe is Triestin) and to find out what it's all about I have to send an e-mail to my good friend Peter Ghiringhelli

To save him (and me) the trouble, ccould you kindly translate the above ?

With all best wishes

Ron

[nanaia]

Ron, don't worry:ffdt (Franco is his complete name) just translated your previous message and Peter's for Nona Picia, because she doesn't understand English
Have a good day!
Nanaia

[ffdt]

[...] the "English Section" [...] has a paragraph (in what I believe is Triestin) [...]

Ron, you're absolutely right and I ask forgiveness for not having considered this point

As Nanaia already did write, I did translate the messages because Nona Picia was asking for, because she doesn't understand english. But I have add a note as a comment of my own too. I'll try to translate back in english but I must confess that Im' more able to translate from english to triestin than from triestin to english ;-D

"he say that he should have looked at the thread (that is here) instead of just the email Ron sent to him ;-D ... like saying that if he had watched the forum it would have noticed that Sum is a man and not a woman ;-D"

Anyway, this little misunderstanding make me thinking about the difficult we, as human beings, have into communicating between us ... and I'm thinking that if it's so easy to have misunderstandings when we are speaking joyfully, then it's not so difficult to have wars when we are simply a little bit more concerned about what we are reasoning.

I feel that everyone of us (as humanity) have to known this and act to don't make fights start.

In a general view, I must note that this usually don't happen.

Ciau

Franco

[PeterG]

"he say that he should have looked at the thread (that is here) instead of just the email Ron sent to him ... like saying that if he had watched the forum it would have noticed that Sum is a man and not a woman

If we are going to get things right, let's get them right then. The above should be:

Peter said that he should have looked at the thread (that is here) instead of just the email Ron sent to him ... like saying that if he had looked at the forum he would have noticed that Sum is a man and not a woman

Yes, that is true. Here is the text I translated:

Caro RON
io no so l'inglese, nè purtroppo lo capisco: perdonami se scrivo in italiano, ma non sono in grado di fare altrimenti (forse qualcuno: vedi nannaia) potrà farti la traduzione.
Mi è sembrato di aver capito che desideravi alcune foto della Caserma di Opicina sita in via Prosecco: mio figlio più piccolo lavora lì ed è riuscito tramite un suo collega a procurarmi alcune foto dei posti che a loro è stato permesso di fotografare. Le metto in questa risposta sperando che almeno in parte possano accontentare il tuo desiderio. Altre immagini non possono essere riprese essendo questo un sito militare, soggetto di conseguenza a restrizioni ben comprensinìbili.

There is no possible indication grammatically or otherwise to determine whether the writer is female or male. Both a man and a woman would say mi è sembrato and both a father and a mother would say mio figlio. That seems obvious to me but just to make double sure a few minutes ago I emailed the text to an Italian friend and, without explaining why, I asked her to tell me whether it was written by a man or a woman. She was unable to say; she confirmed that there is no way of telling. Had I read sum culex's other postings on the thread, to refresh my memory, I would have known, that's all.

Peter

[babatriestina]

You're right, Peter! we sometimes tend to forget that our English members don't usually read the italian sections, where SumCulex is revealing himself as a man

[ffdt]

[...]If we are going to get things right, let's get them right then. The above should be:

Peter said that he should have looked at the thread (that is here) instead of just the email Ron sent to him ... like saying that if he had looked at the forum he would have noticed that Sum is a man and not a woman

[...]

Thank you Peter ... as you can see I'm not so good with the english language . Thank you for your corrections

Franco

[refolo]

To Sum Culex

thanks for the photos, with your permission (courtesy) I wouldn't mind to send them to America, and precicely at the Military Museum in New Jersey, POW/MIAs . ( I have the name and address of the person in charge. )

To changed over with the one written in Yugoslavian language
Trieste is ours. So, they can see that the Tour of duty wasn't done for nothing.


Carissimo Sum Culex.....

grazie anche da parte mia, de ste bellissime foto, ( a mi personalmente te me ga' fatto riviver la mia nazionalita' ) e col tuo permesso un due le spediro' in America, cussi al Museo Militar del New Jersey, POW/MIA's o per rimpiazzarle o inserirle con
con quelle dove ghe xe scritto sul muro in graffiti, TRST JE NAS e la bandiera con la Stella Rossa. Almeno i savera' chel suo Tour of Duty xe stado fatto per qualcosa. Go' l'indirizzo e anche la persona adatta.


Maria aka Refolo

[sum culex]

Cara Refolo
te dago senz'altro el permesso.
ciao
sum culex

[Ron]

Dear friends

It occured to me that an explanation was required concerning my use of Peter to act as my official translator.

I was, after all, in Italy for almost four years during the period September 1943 and January 1947 and so one would expect that I should have been able to read and write Italian pretty well.

Not so.

I spoke Italian fairly adequately, certainly enough for my needs, but then in the same measure I spoke French & German and was often called upon to act as interpreter by those who's knowledge of other languages was even less than my own. It is in the area of written language that I fall at the first hurdle.

The use of Triestin by most of you on this site has obviously made matters worse and so, if you will excuse me, I will stick with my English and call upon Peter to get me out of trouble whenever I can't understand anything that has been written.

Ciao ! (did I get that right?)

Ron

[refolo]

Dear Ron...
I did my best, but in the mean time, I received, an urgent notification,

Be aware to use Google-Yahoo-Aol, there is a terrible virus since last Saturday, if by any chance you open a Power Point e-mail with the word;

"life is beautiful" please delete , not even Microsoft are able to destroyed.

Ciao Maria aka Refolo

[Ron]

Dear Maria

Sorry, but this is just (another) hoax.

Whenever you receive an e-mail like this, just go to GOOGLE and key in the name of the e-mail PLUS the word hoax and you will soon see the truth of the matter.

Ciao

Ron

[macondo]

A good friend of this forum, and an enthusiastic student of the history of Trieste 1945–1954 (between many other subjects!!) has been following this threads and will try to answer some of Ron's questions.
One of the difficulties he faced was that the period in question (1945-47) was likely the less known and more difficult to understand, as so many initiatives taken by the Allied authorities were provisional and short-lived. Also, to make the issue more complicated, many services provided to the soldiers were known by generic names, even if they were provided by other agencies.

Our friend also confessed to be mystified that the Opicina Barracks shown in the photos (nowadays known as Caserma Brunner) were initially hosting the 4th Hussars: in fact, the Barracks are better known as the abode of the 1st Battalion of the 351th (TRUST)!!

Ron, can you confirm from when to when you remember to be on these Barracks?

With regard YMCA and NAAFI:
1) Tergesteo – piazza della Borsa: There was there an EFI Tommy’s Bar
and later an YMCA.

2) Palazzo Rittmeyer – YMCA “The Bridge House”.

3) via del Coroneo 15 – NAAFI “Trieste Service Club” plus WO’s and Sgts’ Club. On the third floor, the Welfare Gift Shop.
Likely, the “In vino veritas” murals was there.

4) The NAAFI Shop and the TOC H Club in via Carducci 8.

5) Caffè degli Specchi, in piazza Unità, was the “Fleet Club” for British sailors, becomes after the “Sugar Bowl” for the Americans and later on an English Club until 1954.

6) The Stazione Marittima, the “Marittima Ballroom”(the place of the Passover), it will becomes the second “Sugar Bowl” for the Americans, when the British soldiers returned to "Caffé degli Specchi".

7) In via S.Lazzaro, number 2 or 4, by the department stores UPIM, there was a resting place with bathrooms, showers etc.

8 “Antica …” could be the Antica Bonavia retsurant, although there were few other places with this adjective. Antica Bonavia was at that time in piazza Unità, with annexed American Bar “Buco nel Muro” (Hole-in-the-Wall). Very popular drinking place for the American troops.

Ron have you read the book “The Boy who Shot Down an Airship”, by one Michael Green. He also wrote books for the “The Coarse Art of…” like “The Coarse Art of Drinking” and “The Coarse Art of Sailing”?

The book above is his biography and he mention to have been served with 4th Hussars, devoting few pages to Trieste and environs.

Is his name familiar to you, Ron?

[Ron]

Hi Mac

Please thank your friend for trying to help me.

This is going to take a little time because I will have to go back both to my own diaries and the Regimental diaries but I will come back on this thread very shortly.

Happy New Year

Ron

[macondo]

And Happy New Year too, dear Ron.

I will send you an email with a little request....

[Ron]

Hi Marino

I have been back to my diaries etc., and have come up with the following:

According to the 4th Queen’s Own Hussars Regimental Diaries,
http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paters ... /index.htm
at least part of the Regiment was at the barracks in Opicina by November 1945.

There is further mention in “A” Squadron Notes, which can be found at:
http://ronsactualarmyalbum.blogspot.com/
(scroll down to Page 83) which gives some further information including the fact that we moved to Monfalcone in September 1946.
We must have moved back to Opicina a month or so later as I was certainly at Opicina when I got my release from the Army as my personal Army Records show that I was home in England by 19/1/47

NOTES:
Nov 3-4th - Regt confined to barracks and precautionary measures taken within the unit during the 'pro-Italian' and communist meetings held on the 3rd and 4th.
Nov 5th - Major RSG Smith rejoined the Regt after having been away nearly 4 years, most of which time he spent as a PoW.
Nov 19th - Capt HHB Greenwood joined the Regt from 1st Derbyshire Yeomanry. The Regt took over a guard of 2 NCOs and 6 men from 6th Btn Cheshire Regt at the broadcasting station TRIESTE.
The month has been spent in settling down in the new barracks and taking over the new vehicles and equipment. Peace time soldiering and barrack life is returning. The Sgts Mess is centralised for the first time for nearly two years and the men's messing is now centralised. The Regt has been allotted an area about 10 miles long bordering the sea and has certain VP's to guard in the event of civil disturbance. Other commitments are German PoW Camp, petrol depot and coal dump in the docks. There is very little available in the way of sports and games, but the town of TRIESTE offers a good deal of attractions in the way of welfare, cinemas and dances.

The Regimental Diaries ended in December 1945.

With regards to the rest of the information that you have kindly supplied, I am absorbing this and will try to locate all the different sites.

Ciau

Ron

I hope this has been of some help

[Ron]

Scusa

Please note that the correct page in my Album is 82 (not 83) and, while you are there, notice the picture of a "Befeater" at the Tower of London.

The man portrayed is my ex Sgt.Major "Busty" Thomas who was given the much coveted post after the war and who I actually visited there with Nita and my young children. Busty was my tank commander at the closing stages of the war and I have written about him in the BBC WW2 Archives.

I also noticed in the Regimental Diaries the following:

Advance party of 2 Officers and 16 ORs moved to VILLA OPICINA and were accommodated by 10th Hussars.

That appears to be the first mention of Opicina

[refolo]

The Excelsior Hotel opposite the stazione Marittima it was the depot too,
until 1949.

I used to go and get a handful of lollies from the soldier in charge.
Like Macondo explained, after 1947 it was changed, soon the Americans arrived.

Baracks it was in Via Donadoni, ( my school was occupated) one side for the Betford and another for the Americans.


Maria aka refolo

[Ron]

I used to go and get a handful of lollies from the soldier in charge.

Ciau Maria

For a ten year old you seemed to do a lot of chatting with the soldiers

Tante Grazie et
Auguri per 2007

Ron