Practice your English. Help and advice.

[AdlerTS]

Never heard of it!

You've been away from Italy for a long time ...I know a man that left Italy in the fifties for Germany and once a year come back to visit his relatives here.
The last time I saw him someboby was drinking some "acqua oligominerale" and he said "oligominerale ? this word did not exist in the fifties"

[Capuzi garbi]

Never heard of it!

You've been away from Italy for a long time ...I know a man that left Italy in the fifties for Germany and once a year come back to visit his relatives here.
The last time I saw him someboby was drinking some "acqua oligominerale" and he said "oligominerale ? this word did not exist in the fifties"

Absolutely so Adler. Proof of your being right lays also in the fact that I always believed that "andito" was a dialectical voice, whereas I learnt from you that it actually is Italian. Thank you: It's never too late to learn!

But explain to me what oligominerale means. I know the minerale part, but what in hell is the significance of oligo?

[babatriestina]

But explain to me what oligominerale means. I know the minerale part, but what in hell is the significance of oligo?

oligo is a word taken from greek that means "little" An oligominerale water is mineral water with very little mineral residuate ( right expression?), that has no mineral taste and is suggested against kidney diseases. And of that kind are the majority of the mineral waters largely sold in Italy, where drinking tap water is considered- IMHO untruly- unsafe and oldfashioned. It is opposite to some mineral waters which have an accentuate taste , as were the mineral waters of the '50, when they were drunken as exception, while normal people drank then tap water ( as I do still now).

[Capuzi garbi]

Thankyou for that Libby.

I must admit I do not understand why anyone would drink mineral water without being able to taste its mineral contents: As you rightly say, one may as well drink tap water, like we all have done for hundreds of years.

I do like some mineral water from time to time exactly because of its slightly salty taste. If it's sparkling so much better.

I believe the right word would be residues.

[babatriestina]

Phonetically 'critter' and '(living) creature' are very similar. .

Allways the phonetical vs originar spelling of the word
I had the impression that , as someone who reads is a reader, and who writes is a writer, so a critter should be someone who crits! from a verb "to crit" perfectly unknown to me

[Coce]

Beta said:
I had the impression that , as someone who reads is a reader, and who writes is a writer, so a critter should be someone who crits! from a verb "to crit" perfectly unknown to me [/quote]

Beta that would make English a sensible languge, but some time it is not.
Ciao Coce

[sono piccolo ma crescero]

The Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary is on line and in it I found the word critter.

It is very useful for me (while reading strips and cartoons!) and I recommend it.

[babatriestina]

Another question:
I had been reading a novel by Don DeLillo, an american writer, called Mao II. It was in italian translation, and I found the phrase:
-Diamoci del tu- disse Charlie
I wonder how that phase sounded and meaned in the original English text, since nobody use the "thou" in normal life, and how can one make feel the passage from the "lei" to the "tu". In French they have the verbs, vouvoyer and tutoyer to mark this difference, but in English?

[Coce]

I don't think there is the equivalent litterary phrase in English of
"Diamoci del tu", but you can use the phrase "Let us speak to each other as Pals" or 'As Mates" but they tend to be both a sort of slang expressions
although they are used and understood any where in the English speaking
world. Ciao Coce

[PeterG]

Beh, son un pò in ritardo, ma un felice anno nuovo a tutti.

There is no equivalent in English of diamoci del tu although thou and thee are still widely prevalent in in the northern counties of England, particularly in Yorkshire. But they simply replace you and are not a sign of intimacy or deference as in Italian and many other languages.

However, I have never heard anyone, north or south, say Let us speak to each other as pals or As mates.

More on thee and thou here
http://www.timetravel-britain.com/05/fa ... ects.shtml

Peter

[Ron]

Thanks for that Peter.
I was interested when the thread started discussing "thee, thy & thou", not words I often use these days, but words of which Shakespeare has made us all aware.
I went to my old friend Wikipedia to see what he had to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:@pple ... quivalents

[AdlerTS]

However, I have never heard anyone, north or south, say Let us speak to each other as pals or As mates.

Maybe is something in use in the australian english

[dcobau]

However, I have never heard anyone, north or south, say Let us speak to each other as pals or As mates.

Maybe is something in use in the australian english

nay

[PeterG]

However, I have never heard anyone, north or south, say Let us speak to each other as pals or As mates.

Maybe is something in use in the australian english

That's the very last thing I can imagine an Aussie saying, struth!

As for Strine, there's a fair dinkum glossary here http://www.travel-library.com/pacific/a ... guage.html

Peter

[macondo]

The nearest thing I can think of darsi del tu is to be on first name terms.....

[PeterG]

The nearest thing I can think of darsi del tu is to be on first name terms.....

Macondo, that isn't quite the same thing. An employee can be on first name terms with his/her boss but that wouldn't necessarily permit familiarity. Aeons ago my wife was in the Foreign Office, and I used to regularly visit her in Paris when she worked at the British Embassy. The British Ambassador then was Soames and he used to insist that everyone use first names, but that in no way placed a lowly typist at his lofty height nor of that of the First Secs.

I think you, collectively, are looking at this from the wrong angle. It isn't that English does not have a tu, rather it's that there is no equivalent of Lei, not to mention the now almost totally defunct Ella. Darsi del tu really means Let's stop using Lei.

Every language has its strengths, but it is the use of Lei which makes Italian so rich and subtle. Consider these two phrases, which would be lost on a foreigner:

Benissimo avvocato; sarò ad attenderla domani alle nove nel suo studio and Signor Vincenzo, che piacere vederlo! and even for a man, out of courtesy, we say arrivederla in both cases, and not arrivederlo, in contrast to the more intimate arrivederci. These subtle gradations are quite impossible in English, but then it is another language.

Peter

[babatriestina]

Well, does someone has read that book in english? ( it was Mao II by Don De Lillo)
Second question: can you guess the original English - well, American- phrase that the translator wrote as Diamoci del tu ?
I have no idea...

[babatriestina]

Benissimo avvocato; sarò ad attenderla domani alle nove nel suo studio and Signor Vincenzo, che piacere vederlo!

Peter

benissimo avvocato. sarò ad attenderLa would be more formal, for the second it sounds strange to me: I'd say:
Signor Vincenzo, che piacere vederLa! or ho visto il signor Vincenzo, è stato proprio un piacere rivederlo

[ffdt]

I guess that the form PeterG did show us is a bit older and not more so much in use, today

indeed, I can recall some older movies (I think 1930 or 1940) when this form was used ... and in venetian it's still in use by some elder people

ciau

Franco

[PeterG]

I'd say:
Signor Vincenzo, che piacere vederLa! or ho visto il signor Vincenzo, è stato proprio un piacere rivederlo

That is interesting and may reflect current usage. It is a matter of custom, Babatriestina, since grammar strictly speaking would demand la [her] to agree with Lei [she] on all occasions, but we balk at using la with a man. In general, men should be addressed using the masculine lo when using Lei. However, the feminine la is retained on very formal occasions or with titles such as, avvocato, dottore, professore. etc. With signor the best linguists recommend lo and not the more formal la, or at least they used to.

Here I am following Franco Fochi and his excellent book L'italiano facile - guida allo scrivere e al parlare. However, my copy is dated 1966 and attitudes may have changed. This is not a matter of grammar but of usage.

Peter