Austrian Navy - K.u.K. Kriegsmarine

[serlilian]

I collect old postcards, particularly of Austrian Navy. I don't remember who asked me to post some postcards of torpedoboats.
Some days ago, I started to publish my collection in a Militaria forum.
Here are the first links:

Dreadnoughts: http://forum.worldwar.it/Forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=16428
Cruisers: http://forum.worldwar.it/Forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=16464
I hope you can see pictures without joining the group.

My web site (under construction... by many years ):
http://www.marina-au.com/

[gene odom]

What a beautiful collection! How long did it take you to locate such a collection of postcards? I am thoroughly inpressed!

[serlilian]

Hi Gene.
I have about 800 postcards, photo and stamps of Austrian Navy, in 11 albums. I started to collect them about 10 years ago and it's quite difficult to find them.
On WorldWar Forum I have posted only 2 albums.
I don't go on with my web site because it can host only 200 photo. Not enough! I must find something different.

[serlilian]

No, I think it's more then 10 years. Maybe 15. I cannot remember when I started.

[Larry]

Serlillian, now that really was a surprise. I never even knew that Austria ever had a Navy. We live and learn!! The other thing I need to look up is where on earth is that place called Lissa. Fasano I have heard of because I have been there as well as Pola but that Pola and Trieste ever built ships, well, I really should have studied history . But I expect that I am like 95% of the Brits, Spain and France we have heard of in history because we were always at war with them. The main thing the Brits connect with Italy and history is the mafia and ice-cream, pizzas and spaghetti.
But that collection of postcards is fabulous. I'll have a look at the second link in a minute.
Larry

[serlilian]

Hi Larry.
Austria has been a great Empire for many years and Triest belonged to it for over 500 hundred years.
In the past centuries Austrian sail ships sailed all over the world.

Here you can see a map of Austrian Hungarian Empire, on right, in green, to see its position in Europe and under, in the biggest map, you can see the names of its towns.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impero_Austro-Ungarico

[serlilian]

Lissa is a Dalmatian island in the Adriatic see. Now it is called Vis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vis_(island)

[serlilian]

Here you can see two maps of Austro-Hungarian Empire, as it was before and after WWI.

http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/maps/li ... ustro.html

[serlilian]

... but that Pola and Trieste ever built ships, well, I really should have studied history ...

Pola was the military harbour of Austro-Hungarian Empire, while Triest was its commercial harbour. But all finished in 1918.

[babatriestina]

Well, Larry, The Habsburg built this navy in Trieste and Pola only in the 18th and 19th century, because, before, the Venetians considered the Adriatic sea as their own, but the Armada that you British ( and the storms) defaited came form an Habsburg cousin
And one of the raisons for the choice of Trieste as a seaport for the Austrian Empire was that they couldn't do so in the Austrian Netherlands (in front of Great Britain) in the 18th century because it was forbidden by a treaty.
As for the Italian navy, in the second War in the Mediterranean there were some clashes with the British Navy.
Before the italian unity, as soon as in the Middle Age, there were in Italy some cities known as Repubbliche Marinare, never heard of?
btw , Serlilian, very interesting and beautiful collection

[serlilian]

Thanks babatriestina.

[Larry]

Serlillian, I've just finished my first study of Austro and Italian history thanks to those links above though Wikipedia. Very interesting. Things that I had never heard of before. Though, having left school at 14 years of age, an 'elementary school' as it was called then, what little we learned of history was of Britain and learning the names of Kings and Queens and the dates they ascended the British throne. (Something I have now forgotten as it has no bearing on my life today). When I did go to university I was in the Army and in my late 30s and only went there to perfect my Italian and French spoken languages in order to become an interpreter in the Army.
Baba, no, I had never heard of those Republiche Marinare. Was Naples one? I ask because of the connection with our Admiral Lord Nelson. Looks like I have another lesson in Italian history coming up.
Goodnight ladies. Must get some beauty sleep!!!!!!! Larry

[babatriestina]

Baba, no, I had never heard of those Republiche Marinare. Was Naples one? I ask because of the connection with our Admiral Lord Nelson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repubbliche_Marinare
They florished many centuries before Nelson and instead of Naples there was Amalfi. They traded in the Mediterranean at the time when William the Conqueror ( William I ) came into England from Normandy

[serlilian]

Hi Larry.
No problem. Many people in Italy don't know anything about the history of Triest too.

[Coce]

Nice to hear from you now and then Larry, and if I am not mistaken
Capitalism as opposed to Feudalism started in Italy in the very same period, in Venice, the Ship- Owners "Armatori" started the shares system "Azioni" to
to share the costs and the risks of trading in the high seas. The banking system originated in Florence by rich commercial entrepeneurs trading across France, the Low Countries and England. We Italians have a long History Cheerio Larry. Colin

[Larry]

Hi Coce, long time no see. BUT, sorry to disappoint you, as far as my poor knowledge of history goes, ITALY did not exist as a unified nation until about 1864. What it was called before then I do not know. As far as I can recall it was a country made up of many small dukedoms, baronies, and contee, and papal territories, most of whom seemed to be always at war with one another. Something similar to the UK but England always had a king or queen (apart from Oliver Cromwell) yet the various counts, barons and dukes even here seemed to be forever at one another's throats. After the Romans vanished into the mists of time what happened? No doubt Babtriestina can give me the picture or Serlillian.
Good night, Larry

[babatriestina]

Hi Coce, long time no see. BUT, sorry to disappoint you, as far as my poor knowledge of history goes, ITALY did not exist as a unified nation until about 1864.

1861

What it was called before then I do not know. As far as I can recall it was a country made up of many small dukedoms, baronies, and contee, and papal territories, most of whom seemed to be always at war with one another.

This picture is nealy true, but not exhaustive: there were something you didn't have in England, as far as I know, a lot of free cities, the "comuni", of course not democratic in the modern sense, but in practice independent from kings and emperors and popes and with local government: the consoli, podestà, Consiglio maggiore della città... Even the papal state growed bigger later.

Something similar to the UK but England always had a king or queen (apart from Oliver Cromwell) yet the various counts, barons and dukes even here seemed to be forever at one another's throats.

At the beginning, Italy was more like England at times of Northumbria, East Anglia... and others little kingdoms I don't remember the names, before the Norman conquest. Even Wales and Scotland if I remember well ( not to speak of Ireland) were added later.
By the way: when England began to have the feeling of being the English nation?

After the Romans vanished into the mists of time what happened? No doubt Babtriestina can give me the picture or Serlillian.
Good night, Larry

At the end of roman empire came first a lot of invaders, like Goths, then Longobards who gave the first form of feudality ( Longobards dukedoms) and the name to the Lombardia, , then the Franks of Charlemagne, then the Normans in the South ( yes, at the same times when they came into England with William the conqueror), the german emperors went into Italy to stress their power and at the same time to have confirmed it by the Pope ( they never agreed which one was the more powerful in theory). Some of the cities went independent, like Genoa, Venice, Florence, Siena, and as they spoke italian they were called italians even if an italian state was not created. But there existed a theoretical Kingdom of Italy, title useed by some German Emperors. At the beginning of italian Renaissance or a bit earlier ( I simplifie to be short) most of those little independent cities accepted a local Lord ( Signore) who annexed the little ones and after making wars between them, called exteriors powers ( French, German, Spanish Kings) as allied and of course became subjects to them, that was in the XVI, XVII and XVIII centuries. Some Republics stayed independent longer, as the Venetian Republic, the Genoan Republic until the XVIII century. For those reasons Italy hadn't the tradition of being united under a King. Positive or negative? I can't say..
( I'm not sure that my English explanation is well written , but I hope to be understood )

[serlilian]

Venice was becoming a very powerful Republic and started to have naval basis (fondaci) all over the Mediterranean. Triest didn't want to be conquered by Venice and asked for the protection of Austria in 1382. Austria, at that time, was a very small County and couldn't really protect Triest. So Venice occupied our town some times, killing inhabitants and wanting a big ammount of money. Eventually, the Republic of Venice finished in 1797, occupied by Napoleon.

[serlilian]

Another chapter of the history of our Navy.

Torpedoboats (German: Torpedoboote or Torpedoschiffe; Italian: torpediniere) and Destroyers (German: Zerstörer; Italian: cacciatorpediniere):
http://forum.worldwar.it/Forum/viewtopi ... 44&t=16736

I use an Austrian book to catalogue my postcards. Unfortunately it puts together these two different kinds of ships. The book is "Österreichs Kriegsmarine, 1848-1918" (Austrian Navy 1848-1918) by Karl Gogg. It's quite interesting. There are 264 photos of Austrian military ships, with a short description of every ship and something about naval operations.

[babatriestina]

Venice occupied our town some times, killing inhabitants and wanting a big ammount of money.

a big amount of money? how could they ask for it, from a little town as was Trieste at the time?
The big amount of money was asked from Napoleon and it was meant from the French Directoire from all the north Italian cities conquered, as a source of money for the french Treasure, exhausted at the time of Revolution.
( of course, when the Venitian occupied the city- two times, if I remember well what was in the books- they killed people not agreeing with them, but at the time of the reconquest by the Habsburg they killed those of the opposite party to be honestly bipartisan )