I have some new info... please give it a read just in case!

[mauricioom]

Hi guys! i found an old document by the name of Biographical Notes On Wolfgang Mucha and his family's background, here's a part of it that mentions trieste and a lot of surnames and other places, i hope you guys can help me in some way (ps: the names are all translated to spanish so i don't know the original form)
Wolfgang Mucha was born in Corgnale (a little town couple of leagues from Trieste), Bishopric of the same name, in the Görz County, legitimate child of the Illustrious (as referred on his baptism act) Juan Francisco Melchior and Ana Maria his legitimate wife, born the 5th of September of 1758 at four o’clock in the afternoon and baptized the 7th of the same month by Juan Franck chaplain of the place; his godparents were the Illustrious and Reverend Mr. Carl Wolfgang de Schiffer canon of Labanza, as well as the really Illustrious Andres de Schifferstein, as godmother the Illustrious Maria Margarita wife of the Illustrious Francisco de Anigoni resident of Laibach and the aforementioned Maria Margarita by the means of her Procurator the Illustrious Maria Josefa daughter of the Illustrious Jose de Ridateto y Lipiza.
Mi grandfather Juan Francisco was an important landowner in Trieste and he dedicated to banking affairs in that trade landmark and he also was in charge of running the postal service in Corgnale with a title and position similar to the Spanish government’s “Correo Mayor”. As a result of the great Austrian wars against Turkey and then against Napoleon I, at the end of the past century, he lost all of his money and fortune and retired to live in Corgnale out of his wife’s wealth dying in the year 1795 without leaving any state of his own and diminished his wife’s, to split between 8 children, 5 daughters and 3 sons.
One of the sons was the canon of Laibach; the other one, my father, pursued a carrier in Artillery; the third one who stayed in Trieste (named Anton) worked in banking affairs and left 11 children the older named also Anton, and the 5 sisters of my father they all got married without having heard of them.
As the postal relations between Austria and Spain were a bit difficult in the past century, mostly because of the French wars, he learned quite late of the passing of his own, and because of the same reason and some others he stopped getting news from his siblings and family, and he took not little nor much care to claim what may had corresponded him of his mother’s inheritance that his brother Anton saved for him, and that when my father died and then my mother, and we tried to claim it, we got a response saying that it was not much and that it was no longer valid according to Austrian law and we had no right to claim.
It still exists in Labanza a foundation made by an uncle of our grandmother Ana Maria noble of Tebul named Schiffrer von Schifferstein Foundation for six students with a stipend of 200 florins (2000 Spanish reales), we have to be made aware that, in the time, that was a really cheap country to live in, the foundation was ran by the Labanza canon and the Marburg parish priest in which the members of the family have preference with arrangements to the degree of relatives, and one of the sons of my cousin Anton has enjoyed those treatments.
Several times I’ve tried to get news on the family and I heard that in 1850 we had a cousin named Wolfgang that was a doctor in Trieste city. In 1868 I heard we had another one that was in the banking business, one employee, and several others we didn’t heard details about.
In 1862 while I was in Santander, I saw a French illustration with an allusion to a battle that took place in Poland in favor of the country’s independence in which the forces were commanded by the General Mucha (v.) Noeon, (that was the way it was written), he most have been a member of our family; our surname is pronounced Muja in German and Muca in Italian.
The ascendants of my grandparent’s families were of those highly important families in his country, Bernstein , Wolkenstein, Hochenthal, Rosenfeld, Petazzi, Terzi, Ursini and Montebelo, noble of Swonzazenk, Knight of the Holy Roman Empire, Baron of Logni, Preslae, Rizmanje, Strak and Sant Abas.

[babatriestina]

I have read this story, it is of long ago.. remember that Laibach is the German name of Ljubljiana, the Slovene capital city, Marburg is the Slovenian Maribor... and that you wrote once Schiffer an then Schiffrer, prof Carlo Schiffrer was a local historian and politician. The Petazzi were one of the noble families, the 13 casade... Lipiza ( Lipizza, Lipica) is near Corgnale and houses the breeding of the Lipizzani horses, but now it is more known for his casinò.

[AdlerTS]

I think that Juan Francisco can be translated into Ivan Franz

Ps: Do you agree do join this message to your "Hi guys!... need some help on XVIII's Trieste..." ? We are still talking about the same fact.

[mauricioom]

Hi guys! i know that this sounds a lot like the oher post but there's some new stuff thrown in, ike for example where is LEBANZA or LABANZA wich is repeted for the whole extention of the document!
Laibach i knew but i didnt know of a Maribor! that should help!
Now i noticed, yeah, the surname is Schffrer not Schiffer. and actualy in Wolfgang's baptism act his mothers surname appears as SCHIFFRER VON SCHIFFERSTEIN, i don't know if that helps!...

Ivan Franz? that sounds weird! hehe... but yeah it might be right!
Thanks so much for the help guys!

Ps: If you want to move me i respect that, i just thought more people would see me if i posted again

[mauricioom]

I'm reading the wikipedia entry for MARIBOR what a pretty place! there it mentions a LEVANT could that be LABANZA?... maybe ah?...

[babatriestina]

Never heard Labanza

[macondo]

I think that Juan Francisco can be translated into Ivan Franz

Joseph Franz, actually

[babatriestina]

I think that Juan Francisco can be translated into Ivan Franz

Joseph Franz, actually

Johann Franz, I think!

[macondo]

Oooops, Betta.
In italiano sarebbe Giovanni Francesco, infatti.

[mauricioom]

thanks guys! i'll write down those two names, 'cause we don't know if he was italian (Giovanni Francesco) or if he was slovenian o german (Johann Franz)...

[mauricioom]

Hey guys! any leads in TEBUL? it sais up there: "our grandmother Noble of Tebul" and i just can't find anythin on the net.. i'm googling like crazy hehe..
Best Regards,
Mauricio

[babatriestina]

Tebul?? never heard.. it sounds very funny...

[macondo]

I have the feeling that both LABANZA (or LAVANZA) and TEBUL are Spanish names of localities that originally were in German or Slovenian, as I suspect that your old document was in fact written in Spanish. Hence, consulting an old Spanish Encyclopaedia or Atlas may perhaps help...

[mauricioom]

Macondo! that is probabbly it! i've been thinking that everything is in german 'cause of LAIBACH and MARBURG and that stuff, but this two in paticular might be a rough translation or the actual name in old spanish of two different places!... i'm going to try to check that posibility! thanks

(It does sound kind of funny! and you know what MUCHA means in polish? fly! hehe)

[macondo]

(It does sound kind of funny! and you know what MUCHA means in polish? fly! hehe)

And what about MUCHO MACHO? That must be Mexican

[mauricioom]

Don't get me started with that!! Everytime that my dad, his brothers, my grandma and all the family sais "de Mucha" while being asked to say their surname everyone goes "De Mucha Que?" 'cause De Mucha or de Mucho means "Of A Lot", so everyone goes "A Lot Of What?"... kind of irritating i think! hehe...

[macondo]

Mauricio, could you be so kind and tell us the 'human' part of your story?
For instance, you are often mentioning an old document..
How you came in possess of such a document?

[AdlerTS]

(It does sound kind of funny! and you know what MUCHA means in polish? fly! hehe)

Muha is fly also in slovenian, Mosca in italian

[mauricioom]

I knew that! fly would be Mosca also in spanish u know?...thank god we didn't transated it!

Well, the story is that once i found a genealogica tree that my grandma made in the 1980s and i got really intrested in this genealogy stuff, now i have compiled a tree made out of more than a thousand names, and i'm just starting! Th thing is that in this journey i've made contact with this girl who's thesis was based in the engeneering achivements made by Wolfgang de Mucha in northern Spain, she sent me some military and marital archives, and along that time i found out that there was another art of the family also here in Mexico that descended from another son of Wolfgang, they had really old documents on the family, including the biographical notes written by the son from wich i descend so it was really special to get a copy of it! now i'm trying to use the "new old" info to trace back the family 'cause although i've now found tons of info on Wolfgang and his descendents, i've found so little on his ascendents... the thing is that if i could contact Andrej Muha, who lives in the town of Lokev where he own an Inn that has belonged to the family since before Wolfgang was born, i think i could make a lot of breakthroughs 'cause he oughtta have a lot of info on the family!..

Well, gotta go to work, so i'll leave it at that...
Best Regards!
Mauricio

[ffdt]

a truly interesting sory Mauricio ... ypu have had a good luck to find your relatives

[...]Andrej Muha, who lives in the town of Lokev where he own an Inn that has belonged to the family since before Wolfgang was born, i think i could make a lot of breakthroughs 'cause he oughtta have a lot of info on the family![...]

I don't want to discourage you, but here we have had two hot world wars and one cold world war ... in the betwen we was fighting between all the sub-groups that the human mind can define ... still today we have people unable to look ahead ... I fear that it's not so much room for the history of the families here ... too much bad history to feel like to remember something ...

anyway I wish you to find everything you need ... and a little bit more

ciau

Franco